A really scary thought Michael.

A scary thought, but partly not without truth.
Under most Islamic regimes, the penalties for sometimes simple crimes, are very violent, and often lead to public executions. Women, for example, do not even have the right to defend themselves to prove innocence. I can only count how many innocent victims there must have been in history.

You do have to realize though that many of these laws are brought upon by the regimes themselves under the name of religion. I'm sure everybody here remembers Timothy McVey who thought blowing up the building in Oklahoma was a good thing due to his own religious beliefs. The KKK used chrisitanity to cover themselves up as the supreme race. Every religion has their extremists, you simply, I think, cannot justify actions based on the regimes and their laws.

If we did that then we can also assume that the U.S. has the extreme law of the death penalty. What's more we can state that it is based on Christian values can we not? When we take the pledge of allegance..."One Nation under GOD"...or take the oath at the court..."Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but to truth so help you GOD?"....or even the mear fact that you have to swear based upon your religous book...or even the statement on the dollar bill..."In God We Trust". Surely when an outside sees all of this and then sees the death penalty one could assume the same barbaric ritual of killing (even possibly innocent people) under the name of religion. You might state that there is a seperation of church and state but is there really? Of course not. Priests molested little children yet they are not in jail for it. Why? Because the government protects them.

We have to be very careful when we draw the line on this discussion. There is a much deeper history between Europe and the Middle East that goes far back to the Middle Ages. This tension over the centuries has been building up and I think this was the perfect time (with the war in Iraq & Afghanistan along with now Iran and Syria being attacked) where the tipping point of many Muslims in that region is sensitive and they feel like they are under attack.

Nobody here has mentioned the peaceful protests. I'm curious about that. I remember reading how there were protests all over the U.S. not one single act of violence or hatred was stated. How quickly we seem to be able to look away at the other side.

Man, i dont have time to show crimes commited by Christians worldwide that shows who are the real "idiots who know nothing more than violence and try to impose their way of life on others." , but here are some events.

1. Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ( You've got to see this. )

2. The American invasion to Iraq, maybe you would say that Iraqi people died there did deserve it, BUT what about the American soldiers died there!! ( 2,267 American soldier died there till now See CNN stats here )

3. I think alot of people believes that Hetler was Christian.

4. Abu-Gharib prison transgression/violence, you've got to google search Abu Gharib Images.

Even though extremely tragic, did any of these events happen because of religious beliefs?

eGawish in defense to the Christian faith, you also cannot state that the people doing this were Christians. Was Saddam a true believer in Islam? Of course not you do not kill people in order to control them.

Man, please dont just keep telling strange things with no real facts, who told you that our Islamic beliefs contains any orders for violence or something near to it, please Qoute from Qur'an or Ahadeeth for Muhamed (P.B.U.H) or just post any link if you find something, and BTW, you must have heard about "The army of God" in North Oghanda, they keep killing in the name of Christanity.


Thats aint true, or even near to the truth, belive me am egyptian and i've lived in an Islamic country all my life. And you also state strange things without any facts or something proving it. In Egypt women have got the same rights as man in the issue of defending herself in the court of law or anything. Execution is also very rare, and never executed in a simple crime, For example the Egyptain President "Al Sadat" his assesination was previously organised and when they cought the killers, only one of them was executed, there are some of them even released during the last year.

I think many here can agree that there are many different people who kill in the name of religion and use violence in the name of religion when in reality they are far from the teachings of that Religion. Christianity teaches love and peace, As does Islam, as Does Budhism yet there are a small few who use violence to attempt to spread the religion. This small portion is always looked upon rather than the larget global portion. IE: We looked at riots only in Syria, Afghanistan, Iran...yet what about the protests in Canada, U.S., Bosnia, Jordan, Qatar, Bahrein...etc...etc...Those were all peaceful protests yet the media didn't pick them up.

Art was not attacking anything by his statement I don't think. He just made a point that the points thath you made were not in the name of religion.

eGawish, not sure if you read the Qur'an (I never read the Bible), but as far as I know, based on speeches (and quotes) by Muslim fundamentalists, their mission is to rid the world of infidels. That would make all of their terrorist crimes against innocent people around the world religious-based.

"My God has a bigger d*&# than your God!"
- from George Carlin's material.

Art you also have to realize that the Qur'an does not teach this. Just like...well I do not want to say Christian groups because I do not believe they are true believers... these extremest (again I don't want to say Muslim because they are far from it) twist words and theories around to make it fit into their agenda. The Qur'an teaches for tolerence and love of others just as the Bible does. There are many more similarities such as this that have the basis within both faiths. In fact both faiths teach and preach for love of mankind and tolerance of others.

It is these fundamentalists (who twist the words of religion such as Al-Queda or the KKK) that deface the true religious teachings. I think that there is a big misunderstanding here in regards to what Islam is, and what Islam is depicted as. Just as there is a misunderstanding of what Christianity is in the Muslim world.

You only see a small part of the story in the media. When the Hurrican hit Louisianna Muslims nationwide in the U.S. sent money and made charity funds to help the needy...where was that in the news? When 9/11 happend, Muslims again made charities and went out and condemned these vile actions. Where was the media to report that? Bias in the media will always create a bias in the audience.

A great example of this is the 9/11 hijackers. The media reported that the last thing they did was go to a strip bar and club. This is forbidden in Islam and they have therefore, fallen out of their religious teachings. Yet people still believe that this action is acceptable in Islam. One must educate themselves about both religions before one can truly discuss this argument I believe. Without understanding for both people will always argue one against the other.

Also another point, your quote is fairly false. Both faiths worship the same God.

And what exactly is the point you are trying to make here?
Are you justifying the acts of these idiots because there are other idiots in the world?
You see, he lies the problem. You make excuses for these actions and it seems all muslims do the same, because other injustices exist.

Here's the news.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were wrong, even though they were not religious based events.

The invasion of Iraq was wrong. Even though it is not a religious based action.

What difference does it make if people believe that Hitler was a Christian? It is a well known fact that Hitler hated Jews and Blacks etc. because they didn't fit the arian prototype. It had nothing to do with religion. And for the record, what Hitler did was wrong.

As far as your "point" on number 4 is concerned, do you have a point?

You can keep justifying the acts of idiots if you like and make whatever excuses you like. I will continue to call idiots what they are. Idiots. Regardless of what insidious faith they choose to be blinded by.

I think the point that the point is this in the end.

You cannot blame all Muslims for a few minority of protestors (what a couple of hundred protestors were violent in each location and yet there is over a billion muslims with protests worldwide mostly being peaceful). Just as you cannot blame all Muslims that extremists exist in their midsts...just as we cannot deny that Christian extremists, jew extremists, etc...do not and did not exist.....JUST like jews do not blame Christians that Hitler existed or Muslims that Queen Isabella and her spanish inquisition existed....and so on and so on...I'm sure you get the point by now?

I don't think anybody here has called any particular faith full of idiots, but moreso the people/extremists that use religion to declare their own personal battles against society.


Yes or no?

Of course. When I refer to idiots I am speaking explicitly of those who are responsible for the violence.

One thing though. We don't and we shouldn't label a whole religion because of the fanatics so why are they labelling the whole country of Denmark based on a newspaper? Why bocott an entire country's products and hurt their citizens because of the actions of one paper?

lol, Thats why i tell you that Muslims are Diff. from christians, ofcourse i do.


As senad have said you cant just tell strange facts without studying both religions, (you've said u never read Bible be4).


Iam not justifying, please read my past replies in this topic, i wont bother repeating everything i say. I've stated these things cause you keep saying that Muslims, generaly are terrorists, not to justify Muslim's action.


the same as the other poinst !!

Senad - I think of all the forums and posts I have read, yours are the most compelling to me. I admit that i feel the reactions I have seen seem extreme for "cartoons".

While I recognize that the cartoons were an affront to Muslims I have found it difficult to understand the extreme reaction. You have helped me immensely to understand what I have been seeing.

I feel badly for the negative thoughts now because I can see that these are a minority reaction compared to the rest of the world. I am sorry that you (and all Muslims) were offended. I wish there was a way that we in "Western" society could show you in "Eastern" society that we honestly harbor you no ill will at all and are more than happy to live with you as brothers!!!

I do however think there is a small flaw in your logic concerning the name of GOD in our money , courts, etc. That is like saying " 1) Iran is a Muslim country 2) Iran is boycotting Denmark so with one and two you get 3) Muslims are boycotting.

The fact that we promise to tell the truth before God is not necessarily a "Christian" thing but an affirmation that we will adhere to the truth.

"One nation Under God" is now considered national history rather than a blanket assertation of Christianity. Many people who believe there is no God have tried to have this removed on the basis of religion and were rebuffed for this reason. Yes, many of us DO believe we are one nation under God but, you get what I mean, right?

To the rest of my fellow Westerners (I'm from texas so that has multiple meaning to me lol) - I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised at the action of Iran in any capacity. They seem to always be the start of radical movements as far as we are ever told. So, I wouldn't base an opinion about an entire belief system on one country's (a minority if there ever was one) willingness to go to further extremes...