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Hosting Discussion > Web Hosting Forums > Web Hosting Discussion > How do they do it? Unlimited CPU and RAM
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  Post #1 (permalink)   02-08-2014, 09:55 AM
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I won't mention the host (yet) but here is a quote from one of their web pages:

We free you up to use unlimited CPU (your server's processing speed) and RAM (your server's memory)....[hostname] will never suspend your site for consuming too much RAM or CPU

They also compare themselves as superior to those unlimited hosts that do limit cpu and ram

The truth comes out in their TOS: There is a 50%/90 sec cpu limit. Now, stop what you are thinking: This is from a limited host that offers a 1, 3 and 5 GB hosting plan!

So on one hand we have unlimited hosts that never promise or advertise unlimited cpu or ram (just the items in typical hosting plans) but are criticized for limiting them in TOS for the same reason quota-based hosts do; and on the other hand a limited host advertising unlimited cpu and ram and then explicitly limiting them in TOS.

Now I wonder if the anti-unlimited crowd here will do what they do best: apply the usual double-standards and hypocritical judgments and give this host a "pass" simply because they specify quota limits in their hosting plan
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Last edited by Collabora : 02-08-2014 at 10:00 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #2 (permalink)   02-08-2014, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Is Unlimited the Same as Infinite?

Absolutley not! Although as your host we are no longer limiting you with arbitrary and artificial quotas traditionally found in Hosting Plans, hardware does have physical limits that you (and we) still need to worry about
The definition of unlimited is "not limited or restricted in terms of number, quantity, or extent". In the end it is, in fact, limited; regardless of how you attempt to spin it.


Quote:
What's so unlimited about that?

Its not if you want to run an anime video trading forum, back up your girlfriend's PC or host pirated copies of Windows 8. But for you -- the legitimate website owner -- it is unlimited.
Fluff. It's only unlimited as long as one doesn't attempt to use it as such; namely, it's only unlimited until you reach the limits.
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  Post #3 (permalink)   02-08-2014, 04:36 PM
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About my hosting and unlimited FAQ another self-appointed expert states:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TekStorm - James View Post
It's only unlimited as long as one doesn't attempt to use it as such; namely, it's only unlimited until you reach the limits.
Since over 99.9% of websites suitable for a shared hosting environment will hit cpu and ram limits way before they use any significant disk space (say, over 20GB), or cause abuse, you have unintentionally justified the unlimited hosting plan. Congratulations.

As I predicted in my OP above, the limited host in question is getting a pass; what's more I am the bad guy for offering unlimited disk space but not unlimited cpu or ram. The hypocrisy of the anti-unlimited crowd never ends.

Last edited by Collabora : 02-08-2014 at 04:42 PM.
 
 
 


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  Post #4 (permalink)   02-08-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
So what does this unlimited "CPU" & "RAM" mean to you? You'll have faster load times, more freedom over the programs you can run on your hosting account, and quicker database access. But best of all, [name] will never suspend your site for consuming too much RAM or CPU.
This is what I don't get. If you have loads of customers of a server and let them all use all of the RAM and all of the CPU, then there's a name for that! Oversold.

We're not ashamed to tell you upfront that we limit
  • CPU
  • Memory
  • Virtual Memory
  • Disk I/O
  • Disk Space
  • Disk Inodes
  • MySQL I/O
  • MySQL CPU
  • Number of MySQL connections
  • Apache Processes
  • Number of Processes
  • Diskspace
  • Bandwidth (transfer)

Because of this our customers hosting is faster, not slower.
We have found the less you limit people, on average, the slower websites get as the "greedy" users who should be on VPS machines steal all of the resources from the others. The minority of users using the majority of resources is never good.

When we started limiting all of these resources, we lost a few customers, but then other customers who enjoyed the increased speed and performance purchased more. The increased stability along with the performance seriously decreased churn.
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  Post #5 (permalink)   02-09-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ughosting View Post
This is what I don't get. If you have loads of customers of a server and let them all use all of the RAM and all of the CPU, then there's a name for that! Oversold..
WRONG! Its called overloaded. Overselling has no affect on server performance. A provisioned site will act the same whether or not it was sold by overselling. Overselling is a business model not a server configuration. Its the hosting plan that defines overselling, not the sites that are created. A host can be overselling before the first site is ever provisioned with zero sites on server.

Last edited by Collabora : 02-09-2014 at 10:23 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #6 (permalink)   02-09-2014, 10:31 AM
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It it's overloaded, it's because I've sold more accounts than the current environment can handle.
And that's Oversold.

I'm not attacking you @Collabra, I'm agreeing with you about memory and CPU.
Without limits you cannot even sell 1 account, as that account could be more than the dedicated server can handle.

I have been sorely tempted to go down the unlimited disk space path, as with SANS and NetApp, it's a possibility now, but I do host a fair few installations of "OwnCloud" and I don't think I'm gonna be able to handle such products along with unlimited space.
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  Post #7 (permalink)   02-09-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ughosting View Post
It it's overloaded, it's because I've sold more accounts than the current environment can handle.
And that's Oversold.
Selling more accounts than the server can handle is the very definition of overloading, not overselling. You can sell the same accounts on the same server without overselling (by modifying hosting plan accordingly) and the server will still be overloaded in the same way. Like I said above: Overselling is a business model, not a server configuration.

Quote:
I have been sorely tempted to go down the unlimited disk space path, as with SANS and NetApp, it's a possibility now, but I do host a fair few installations of "OwnCloud" and I don't think I'm gonna be able to handle such products along with unlimited space.
(Please note that the host I mention in OP is a limited host, not an unlimited host)

I am a Windows host and not familiar enough with those two products to comment on their management. However don't be swayed by the old-fashioned anti-unlimited hosts you find in these forums. They present an erroneous view of what is known as "unlimited hosting" by inventing scenarios that never materialize as a way of defining away unlimited hosting

I'll tell you this: 100% of my sites will fit into your Bronze Plan (not counting database and email). My largest site is 1,948 MB. I have never suspended a site for abusing disk space. This isn't surprising since on average 99.9% of all sites suitable for a shared environment are under 2 GB.

If you changed your hosting plans tonight to "unlimited," the sites currently on your server will not behave any differently than they do now. Thus no additional technology is needed by you to go "unlimited." And I am willing to wager that all future sites will be smaller than your Platinum plan!

I say "old-fashioned" because web sites today are very different than they were when Artashes created this forum. Instead of thousands of files being required to to create a small web site of a few pages, with dynamic pages we only need a few scripting files and a database to create a site of hundreds, even thousands of pages. Thus things like cpu become more important than disk space.

The non-plan limits you are currently using and described in your TOS is enough to prevent sites from using too much hosting plan resources like disk space.

Unlimited is merely the absence of the artificial limits imposed by the hosting provider in the hosting plan. We no longer need these artificial quotas to manage sites on a web server because they are not as important as they were when hosting plans were invented.

Don't let the ignorant and the FUD marketers on hosting forums dictate how to operate your business.
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Last edited by Collabora : 02-09-2014 at 11:51 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #8 (permalink)   02-10-2014, 03:29 AM
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If you switch hosting to host on an unlimited plan, your sites behavior might not change, but on a shared service you have to take into consideration the behavior of your other tenants, especially on Windows as the windows kernel does not offer the same user isolation as a Linux kernel can.

You can argue all you like about whether some scenarios will ever happen. But they could happen and if you've ever hosted on EIG services, there's a good chance you know that they do happen.
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  Post #9 (permalink)   02-10-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collabora View Post

Don't let the ignorant and the FUD marketers on hosting forums dictate how to operate your business.
I like this quote anyone can look over some of your own posts and find you have being doing exactly this, trying to dictate how others should run their business
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  Post #10 (permalink)   02-10-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ughosting View Post
If you switch hosting to host on an unlimited plan, your sites behavior might not change, but on a shared service you have to take into consideration the behavior of your other tenants, especially on Windows as the windows kernel does not offer the same user isolation as a Linux kernel can.
Yes of course -- use the same considerations you do now. You have plenty of additional limitations and restrictions in your TOS/AUP. Add more if you think they are necessary. One I recommend is to insist on all the files be linked and support a real personal or small business web site.

If all your future unlimited customers will fit into your current Platinum Plan then nothing more needs to be done except changing the wording of the hosting plan. There isn't a website suitable for a shared hosting environment that will go over 25 GB, which you currently allow in Platinum plan. I've never seen one. The only ones I have ever heard of are the ones invented in the minds of the anti-unlimited crowd in hosting forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ughosting View Post
You can argue all you like about whether some scenarios will ever happen. But they could happen and if you've ever hosted on EIG services, there's a good chance you know that they do happen.
Yes, it is in the realm of physical possibilities. And if you have millions of sites and signing up thousands a day like EIG then that tiny, tiny probability of coming across such a site may be realized. However, if you are signing up that many customers, extreme disk space used by that one rare rogue site is the least of your worries . I would welcome such worries!


Personally, I see no reason to force a customer to choose -- often without saavy -- between a 1,3, or 5GB plan when over 99.9% will never go over 3GB. The remaining less than 0.1% are dealt with on a case-by-case basis and will not dictate the hosting plans I choose to sell. Indeed, the consensus here, seemingly even among the anti-unlimited crowd, is there is a marketing advantage to an unlimited plan as opposed to a series of multi-tiered quota-based plans.

I am just informing you how its done and why it works. My purpose was to show why you don't need the additional expense and resources you first mentioned and which prevented you from going with an unlimited plan.

Last edited by Collabora : 02-10-2014 at 09:07 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #11 (permalink)   02-10-2014, 03:41 PM
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The best thing to do is to not cram as many clients as you can. It's best not to be greedy because it can cost you in the long run. Losing all of your clients is worse than losing almost none of them!
 
 
 


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  Post #12 (permalink)   02-10-2014, 04:09 PM
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The best thing to do is to not cram as many clients as you can. It's best not to be greedy because it can cost you in the long run. Losing all of your clients is worse than losing almost none of them!
Exactly. this is why when our servers reach approx. 70% in accounts, we lock the server down to prevent any new accounts on the server. We also have warnings in place so if account start using too much I/O, CPU etc. we are informed along with the account holder/reseller.
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  Post #13 (permalink)   02-11-2014, 12:36 AM
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Practically, there is no product that can be called as an "Unlimited Hosting" plan. The reasons are simple:

1. There is no server which offers Unlimited Disk space.
2. There is no hardware built yet which can offer unlimited processing power.
3. There is no such thing called as Unlimited RAM.
4. There does not exist an unlimited speed uplink in any DC yet.

All providers offering unlimited plans are in reality offering you higher hardware limits rather than anything else. As a purchaser, one has to note the hardware part as mentioned above and then evaluate the providers so called "Unlimited" hosting plans.
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  Post #14 (permalink)   02-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tecsys View Post
Practically, there is no product that can be called as an "Unlimited Hosting" plan. The reasons are simple:

1. There is no server which offers Unlimited Disk space.

4. There does not exist an unlimited speed uplink in any DC yet.
.
This is the usual response by those that do not know what they are talking about

Unlimited does not refer to the hardware. It refers to the quotas typically listed in a hosting plan. You can have unlimited disk space quota on a 100 GB drive just as easily as in a 100 TB system. Its merely an OS configuration.

Once again, responder does not even read OP. OP is about a limited host offering unlimited cpu and ram

Last edited by Collabora : 02-11-2014 at 09:23 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #15 (permalink)   02-12-2014, 04:48 PM
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I have never heard of Unlimited Ram and CPU the host is pretty bad.
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