Well as always, I love helping people out, so if you need any help let me know. A co-worker once showed me much of what I know with MySQL & PHP, so I owe it to pay forward to some degree.

Maybe it's just me, but I NEVER learn on a client's time. Very bad IMO. If I come across an issue that I have to research I stop the clock and don't start it until I'm back "accomplishing" something to do with their project.

This concerns me, and I wonder how many others learn on their client's time.

I adopt a similar approach when doing websites or scripts, as designers or even coders/programmers can’t be expected to know everything and if charging clients while you’re learning is an approach you take, its going to be a shock on the client when they see the bill, let alone on your reputation.

The internet is a good tool for finding solutions to problems but there are so many solutions to one problem these days that it is very difficult for anyone learning a language to decide which one to adopt and a large number of the examples or code shown will only work under certain circumstance. And those learning the language often adapt scripts and later notice the consequence.

Trial an error is the best way to learn with any language, as long as it’s with your own time and not that of your employer or client.

Troubleshooting a new routine? Writing a new subroutine? Configuring a script differently than you've done previously, and / or using a feature you've known about but haven't previously implemented (and thus reading the API to figure out the configuration options)? All of that falls under the category of "learning on the client's time."

Learning HTML, CSS, PHP, Photoshop, et cetera from ground zero? That's stuff one should learn on one's own time. Hence my desire to learing PHP: I haven't needed it previously aside from installing some scripts; but I could, in the next year, be in situations where more in-depth knowledge of PHP is necessary. I'd rather not wait until the last second to get a decent overall grasp of concepts and programming. It's then more difficult to separate out my learning-time from client- or project-specific learning time.

And yes, for the above-mentioned smaller stuff, I charge any development clients for time spent researching and configuring things for their specific project, if it's not something I have to go out and research. Legal professionals do the same thing when they have to research points of law, gather information and evidence. The client is billed for that time. There's honest and dishonest ways to bill a client for your time spent troubleshooting and researching specifically for their project - much as there are both honest and dishonest practitioners in just about any profession.

I personally won't take a project unless I know EXACTLY what steps I need to take to accomplish the desired end result. There are of course circumstances where workarounds & alternative methods are needed, but in such cases I deduct any "wasted time" from the total time spent on the particular task.

If extensive research is needed on an API for example, the "potential" client is notified before hand and arrangements are made. This happens very rarely as most come to me knowing what they want and asking what they need.

If I need a script that has to work with X application, I see no reason why I should not be billed for the time the programmer must take to familiarize himself with that specific application. I can't expect him to know all about the hundreds of applications out there, or do this kind of research on his own time. Now, if I'm lucky enough, or make this a requirement, I might find a programmer who's already done that research as part of other jobs he had, but I can at the same time expect this to lead to a very long search for the "right" programmer.

Just my personal take on this of course.

When I read "learning on the client's time," I thought it meant learning PHP/MySQL itself, not the intricacies of the project/script/software/site/customer. If this were the case--a "developer" who didn't know that much about PHP/MySQL and used the client's time to brush up on the fundamentals--then I don't see how anyone could disagree that this would be quite bad.

But on your point, Dan, I agree.

Agreed. I mite spend 10-20 minutes reviewing the documentation, and if at that point I feel comfortable I'll let them know I can do it, though there will be some research involved, billed at a reduced learning rate, or what I like to call "hmm, let me see" time.

Different people learn differently. Some people are visual, some auditory. Some learn from reading, others do better with images -- a LOT of people fall into that last category...

A good series of books for learning something totally new is O'Reilly's Head First Series... and they have a PHP/MYSQL title. It has a lot of the features many need to really learn with diagrams, activities, etc. And since their from ORA, they tend to be pretty good. Check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Head-First-MyS.../dp/0596006306

I lean best by video's, there are plenty of free ones on the internet just google it.

I learn best by doing. No books, videos, audio, just give me the syntax!