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  Post #31 (permalink)   05-31-2009, 02:14 PM
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I just remembered once how I told a client that his site would take two to three weeks to be built. The friend who heard about CSS twice in his life said to me later, "man I can do that site in 3 days". So much about quality and weekend designers...
 
 
 


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  Post #32 (permalink)   05-31-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdinistrator View Post
I just remembered once how I told a client that his site would take two to three weeks to be built. The friend who heard about CSS twice in his life said to me later, "man I can do that site in 3 days". So much about quality and weekend designers...
There's nothing wrong with weekend designers IMO, but you've got to have the experience first. It's funny how so many people think this is so easy, and while what was once difficult is now easy, there's so much more to it than most think.

Recently a family member brought to me a friend of theirs looking for some work. My cousin said "I've seen him make a website like myspace in like 3 hours!".. I then asked if it actually functioned, and she agreed. I thought to myself, "he's probably got a clone script"..

Long story short, he had spent a couple hours saving all the myspace pages(html) and then used NVU to change the logo.. He asked me why the links weren't working and I told him he had a "id 10t" error. I haven't called him since
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  Post #33 (permalink)   06-01-2009, 03:53 AM
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OMG is that really true? I guess you can't be surprised these days very much.

OK, since we are sharing stories, here's another one. When I published one of my sites couple of years ago I send mass mail to all my friends about the news with link to site included. So, one of my friends was in some evening school about web design. He though my email was invitation to a review so he did a review of my site, from a "professional's" point of view. Although my design was OK, he implied how many tactical and logical mistakes I've made when structuring the site. His email was finished with a question: "Have you heard about keywords, did you implement those? You know, you will have many benefits if you put those on your site". Apparently keywords is something that you have to put on your site additionally. Well, live and learn...
 
 
 


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  Post #34 (permalink)   06-01-2009, 09:29 AM
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Web design is a learning process, even for the experts. Its one of the things I like about the industry. There is so much you can do with design creatively, that you'll never run out of new angles. The saying at the top of my calendar reads, "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." That definitely fits web design.
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  Post #35 (permalink)   06-01-2009, 03:15 PM
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Web design is a learning process, even for the experts. Its one of the things I like about the industry. There is so much you can do with design creatively, that you'll never run out of new angles. The saying at the top of my calendar reads, "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." That definitely fits web design.
Agreed. Not just design, but development. I'm not the greatest designer, but when it comes to math, logic, and custom functions I've been very "creative" if that's the world for it. Maybe "resourceful" fits better.

That's another thing I love about the industry. Resources have a big part. I could argue that I intuitively know google search logic better than anyone I know. There's all these design/development classes friends of mine have gone to and their crutch is their instructor. They say "I'll ask when I get to class" I say "I'll ask google right now".

What I'm saying is that you can teach yourself. There's no better resource than the internet. Although some instruction/mentor would help.. It's trial and error for the most part that propels your skills.
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  Post #36 (permalink)   06-02-2009, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
That's another thing I love about the industry. Resources have a big part. I could argue that I intuitively know google search logic better than anyone I know. There's all these design/development classes friends of mine have gone to and their crutch is their instructor. They say "I'll ask when I get to class" I say "I'll ask google right now".
So now you can Google or Bing it.
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  Post #37 (permalink)   06-02-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-Hostirian View Post
Web design is a learning process, even for the experts. Its one of the things I like about the industry. There is so much you can do with design creatively, that you'll never run out of new angles. The saying at the top of my calendar reads, "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." That definitely fits web design.
Id agree as well on that one, as a programmer there is no end to solutions to one single problem and with a large number of less experienced users using various scripts to power their websites, they will use other peoples solutions to ultimately find the one that works for them (plug-ins etc).

There’s a lot to learn as both a coder and a user, a number of days ago someone suggested phpbb portal that solved an issue id faced with a site, where as I intended to create a CMS registration system to solve the issue.. which i may still do but again even the most experienced will learn something from those less experienced.

Nice to see it works full circle
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  Post #38 (permalink)   07-02-2009, 06:29 PM
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God I hate WYSIWYG editors. I just bought a site that used one and I had to basically reconstruct everything in pure code so I could do everything I wanted. Ridiculous.
 
 
 


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  Post #39 (permalink)   07-02-2009, 10:03 PM
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lol, my husband is still a Dreamweaver fan. I've weaned myself off it unless I'm explaining something to him or helping him with the site I built for the lodge. He admins it and converted it to a nice, simple dreamweaver file so he can update it in about 2mins tops. Still makes me itch to "fix" things some days. I just close my eyes and am thankful he is the admin and not one of the old guys who thinks tons of animated gifs and background music is "cool"

I never liked the pages Front Page made and when I started learning design tons of people used it. So I sucked up and learned it all by hand, starting with making a sentence on a page, changing the page color, font color, making it bold, adding a background pic, making a table, etc. I progressed along with the coding, from HTML to CSS. I can make a decent page and make it compliant more often than not. I charge a small token for the pages I've made and it includes a tutorial to update it yourself and imbedded notes to help if you get lost if you want/need them.

I don't look down on those who use WYSIWYG editors, nor do I consider them better or worse than hand coding. Not everyone can recall all the coding necessary by heart. So long as the client is happy and the page works who's to say one way is better?

I've had clients running Win 95 and IE from the dark ages who only cared that the page looked good on their computer....heck with the modern fools with Win XP and IE8.
 
 
 


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  Post #40 (permalink)   08-04-2009, 03:29 PM
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I tend to agree, it's hard to define what is a full service. Most important thing in any business is to do what both sides have agreed on, this is where one should pay attention to the tiniest details of the agreement.
 
 
 


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  Post #41 (permalink)   08-04-2009, 03:57 PM
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I run across a lot of clients who are computer savvy, but not necessarily design or SEO savvy. Setting design and SEO expectations upfront minimizes problems on the back end. So, as Zagor said, the most important thing is to do what both sides have agreed on.
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  Post #42 (permalink)   08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
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I started out about 12 years ago with Netscape's WYSIWYG before moving onto FrontPage. I had good experience with FP (save for the unnecessary code additions and folders) before finally graduating to Notepad++ last year.

No more WYSIWYG for me - unless Expression 2 knocks my socks off when I test it this weekend, that is!
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  Post #43 (permalink)   08-04-2009, 04:12 PM
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I think you'll be impressed by Expression Web - all of the FP bloat is gone.
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  Post #44 (permalink)   08-07-2009, 06:02 PM
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I agree it has to be more of habit over talent.

By the way, I think this is a generation for CMS for webdesigning. Sure this is will always make your blogging easy to update and manage.
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  Post #45 (permalink)   08-12-2009, 02:20 PM
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Just wanted to mention that I have tested Expression 3 and, to my great delight, it is nothing at all like Frontpage. I haven't put enough time in to offer a detailed review but the code is infinitely neater and tools and features seem to be more generally intuitive.

I'll stick with handcoding when possible but I'm sure Expression will come in handy from time to time.
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