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  Post #1 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 10:28 AM
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Once again I find myself picking up the pieces of a business website that has clearly been thrown together by a n00b with Dreamweaver charging thousands..

I'd like to know if any "respectable" design/developers use or would be caught dead using WYSIWYG editors?
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  Post #2 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 10:43 AM
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Respectable to you is relative - probably different from my perspective. You're a design/developer specialist, so your expectations are obviously set to a higher standard.

I use WYSIWYG editors, but always split the display to review the coding on the backend. When necessary, I'll change the coding to achieve the results I'm looking for. Most of the development work I do (not for Hostirian), is geared toward transitioning the client to manage their own site.
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  Post #3 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 10:52 AM
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I've been using WYSIWYG programs for a long time. I don't know code, so when I need to do something within my level of skill, I will use FrontPage (very used to that program).
 
 
 


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  Post #4 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artashes View Post
I've been using WYSIWYG programs for a long time. I don't know code, so when I need to do something within my level of skill, I will use FrontPage (very used to that program).
FrontPage? You really need to move on.
CSS really isn't that difficult. Expression Web 2 Upgrade costs around $100 - and could be a good upgrade for you. I have clients who know nothing about code using this software to manage their sites.
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  Post #5 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-Hostirian View Post
Respectable to you is relative - probably different from my perspective. You're a design/developer specialist, so your expectations are obviously set to a higher standard.

I use WYSIWYG editors, but always split the display to review the coding on the backend. When necessary, I'll change the coding to achieve the results I'm looking for. Most of the development work I do (not for Hostirian), is geared toward transitioning the client to manage their own site.
As you mentioned, you do view the code as well, so I'll give you kudos on that Of course my standards are much higher than most, & I wouldn't hold someone outside my profession to the same standards I hold myself, however my issue is primarily with those who are paid as "professionals" and are anything but.

@Artashes, I'd also suggest getting away from FP.

To any who are seriously trying to be a professional.. I'd highly suggest weening yourself off of the WYSIWYG's. HTML & CSS are very easy once you grasp the basic logic. I mean.. "font-weight: bold" how hard is that?
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  Post #6 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 11:22 AM
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I consider myself to be very respectable and I use WYSIWYG almost exclusively.
I will modify some code but I don't rely on it nor do I think I need to.
No complaints so far.

I have seen many lousy sites designed by "experts" who code everything by hand.
 
 
 


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  Post #7 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
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I have seen many lousy sites designed by "experts" who code everything by hand.
Just because someone codes everything by hand doesn't automatically make them "experts", or even good.
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  Post #8 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 02:06 PM
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No. It doesn't.
And just because some choose to use WYSIWYG format doesn't make them any less respectable.
 
 
 


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  Post #9 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 02:37 PM
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I think it really helps to know the basics of coding because WYSIWYG editors can sometimes produce strange unwanted results that are easily corrected by slightly modifying the underlying code. I started with WYSIWYG graphic terminals in 1980 (Varityper 4800) and have been a great fan ever since. When I first started with FrontPage, I was always curious what the code looked like on the backside, and would play around for effect - mostly with undesired results. LOL. The more you see the code in different applications, the easier it is to understand the how and why this stuff works.
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  Post #10 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 02:50 PM
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I'm an programmer - have been professionally for 25+ years now. And I've got to say that the newer WYSIWYG packages like Expression2 is miles different from FrontPage - and I created the 1st Microsoft certified hosting provide in Louisiana many years ago, off a couple T1s in the back of the house on DEC Alphas running NT.

We also write Line-Of-Business apps for healthcare, and one of the cool things we're moving into is adding Silverlight with Expression Studio to C# back end (VS2008)... No more client application pushes and you can even forget 1 click installs... How about the only thing needed on the PC is a browser with SL. See this article for an intro There are some kinks being worked out, but SL3 is looking pretty good.
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  Post #11 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 03:01 PM
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Thanks for the link. SL3 does look to be pretty comprehensive.
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  Post #12 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 05:15 PM
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If you play with it, just realize it's a pretty early developer's version. Things may (and will) change before it ships.
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  Post #13 (permalink)   05-04-2009, 08:33 PM
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I like using CODA for all of my editing.
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  Post #14 (permalink)   05-13-2009, 04:04 AM
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This is what I call classic case of a web site done by neighbor's little kid Those people should be put to prison for not providing a full service! One of the ways to outlaw such "web designers" is to inform clients that proper coding is a normal thing and they should always ask for impartial review of their paid work.
 
 
 


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  Post #15 (permalink)   05-13-2009, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdinistrator View Post
This is what I call classic case of a web site done by neighbor's little kid Those people should be put to prison for not providing a full service! One of the ways to outlaw such "web designers" is to inform clients that proper coding is a normal thing and they should always ask for impartial review of their paid work.
Not the way the world works. Full service to you may mean different things to different clients. Impartial reviews? From who?
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