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  Post #46 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
A host that oversells does so even before the first site is added to a server. That is, you can oversell and have an empty server. An empty server performs the same whether you are overselling or not. A server with 10 sites performs the same whether you are overselling or not. A server with 100 sites performs the same whether you are overselling or not, ad nauseum. Its amazing how many hosts do not understand the concept
wrong.

you can have a server with say 1 GB space and 1 GB bandwidth, so you set up pland of 200mb space and 200mb bandwidth which would mean you can place 4 of these on the server as you need to allow the space used for the OS etc.

but if the server is empty then you have not oversold your server becuawe you have not sold anything yet. you would need to sell 5 of these plans to oversell ( as overselling is to oversell available resources) whioch until you sell 5 you have not done.
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  Post #47 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by easyhostmedia View Post
wrong.

you can have a server with say 1 GB space and 1 GB bandwidth, so you set up pland of 200mb space and 200mb bandwidth which would mean you can place 4 of these on the server as you need to allow the space used for the OS etc.

but if the server is empty then you have not oversold your server becuawe you have not sold anything yet. you would need to sell 5 of these plans to oversell ( as overselling is to oversell available resources) whioch until you sell 5 you have not done.
You don't have to sell anything. Let's be a little more realistic. Suppose you have two identical servers with enough ram and cpu to handle 300 sites. Each server has 500GB of web storage. For the sake of simplicity we'll just discuss overselling and disk space.

Now let us assume that the average web site is about 2GB.

HostA - He does not oversell and offers a 2GB plan. He can sell 250 sites (2gb/plan x 250 plans=500gb)

HostB - He tells himself "I am going to oversell" and so offers a 5GB plan with those same 250 sites. We say he oversells because 5gb/plan x 250 plans = 1,250gb space with only 500GB available (remember, each site is still about 2GB). And we can say this before he sells his first hosting plan!

So now we have two identical servers: both have 250 sites utilizing the same amount of server resources. The only difference is the hosting plan. Thus you can see its the HOSTING PLAN not the provisioning that defines overselling. Host B is overselling before he gets his first customer -- by definition

Here is the flipside: both hosts offering a 5GB plan

HostA will not oversell and can sell only 100 plans. HostB can still sell his 250 plans. Thus HostA has 5 servers for every 2 HostB has. Which host can provide the best value? Who's costs will be lower? Who will have the higher revenue?


This also destroys the claim that overselling causes server slowdown. As I mentioned before, and as you can see here, it does not matter how those 250 sites got onto the server -- either PlanA or PlanB -- there will be no difference in server performance.

The question now becomes: Which hosting plan will sell best?

Last edited by Collabora : 10-15-2012 at 03:06 PM.
 
 


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  Post #48 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 03:22 PM
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overselling meand OVER SELL.

uou have no idea how many sites you will get on any server as each site is different and as you have not sold any then you cant work this out.

a server with 500GB of web storage does not have 500GB of web storage available as you have to take account of the OS,control panel and any addons such as CSF etc.

Quote:
HostA - He does not oversell and offers a 2GB plan. He can sell 250 sites (2gb/plan x 250 plans=500gb)
but he may get 500 orders so he now is overselling

HostB - He tells himself "I am going to oversell" and so offers a 5GB plan with those same 250 sites. We say he oversells because 5gb/plan x 250 plans = 1,250gb space with only 500GB available (remember, each site is still about 2GB). And we can say this before he sells his first hosting plan!
he may only sell 5 orders so he is not overselling
you have not oversold or undersold until you sell a single plan.
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  Post #49 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by easyhostmedia View Post
but he [HostA]may get 500 orders so he now is overselling
Stick to the example and please don't add your own comments to what you quote as mine. HostA is a no-overselling host. He'll have to bring up another server on his 251st order. After 500 orders he will need a third.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
HostA - He does not oversell and offers a 2GB plan. He can sell 250 sites (2gb/plan x 250 plans=500gb)
Here are my examples overselling on reseller service

To oversell or not to oversell can be decided before one even purchases a server. It should be part of your business plan and the hosting plans can be created with respect to the business plan chosen.

Last edited by Collabora : 10-15-2012 at 03:56 PM.
 
 
 


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  Post #50 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 04:50 PM
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the clue is in the word OVERSELLING.

you cant over sell anything until you sell something in the firstplace.
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  Post #51 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by easyhostmedia View Post
the clue is in the word OVERSELLING.

you cant over sell anything until you sell something in the firstplace.
Overselling is a model, not just an act. Just because you are unaware of that or refuse to recognize it does not make it non-existent.

I suppose the next thing will be web hosts don't do hosting unless they sell a hosting plan first (as you say, the clue is in the word "hosting"). That would be plainly ridiculous -- as is your logic. One is a web host not just because they are hosting a website but also by the mere fact they are in the web hosting business.

As I have proven a couple times already a host can create servers and hosting plans based on the overselling model before selling a single plan. You are free to ignore that but please refrain from spreading myths and untruths about something you refuse to learn about.

For the readers who missed it, here is the irrefutable proof: overselling on reseller service. The mantra "we don't oversell" is just a marketing gimmick

Last edited by Collabora : 10-15-2012 at 06:58 PM.
 
 
 


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  Post #52 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by b2netsolutions View Post
Is it good when a reseller host allows overselling on their service?
Now that I have illustrated the true meaning of overselling we can address the OP's question with some serious insight. But to do so one must determine if the provider is overselling. There are different possible scenarios.
  1. The provider oversells reseller plans, the reseller does not oversell
  2. The provider oversells reseller plans, the reseller oversells
  3. The provider does not oversell, the reseller oversells
  4. The provider does not oversell, the reseller does not oversell

Then for each of these instances there is an additional permutation:
  1. The host mixes reseller and regular plans on the same server
  2. The host has servers that are dedicated to each type.

Thus there are eight different scenarios to choose from. Pick one.
 
 


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  Post #53 (permalink)   10-15-2012, 07:30 PM
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Actually you can oversell something before you begin to make one sale.

Once you have created your pricing structure if it is built on more than the resources to which you are selling then you have oversold your product/service.

That being said it is not really a bad thing as I once thought as long as you honestly have the plan to backup the pricing so that you can expand and meet the demands of the customer.

The problem is all these hosts out there with their crazy plans talking about hosting any site for $1 or less.
That doesn't give you an honest amount of money to provide support nor expansion. Yet crazy enough customers keep falling for it then getting peeved that it didn't work out.
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  Post #54 (permalink)   10-16-2012, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
Overselling is a model, not just an act. Just because you are unaware of that or refuse to recognize it does not make it non-existent.
then it must be different in the USA than in the UK as what i stated is what is told by UK trading standards.
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  Post #55 (permalink)   10-16-2012, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by easyhostmedia View Post
then it must be different in the USA than in the UK as what i stated is what is told by UK trading standards.
You really haven't stated much except "overselling is bad." What does the UK trading standards say? ....In their words.... It seems like the Limeys are confusing overselling with overloading?

In the US its commonly refers to the selling of a volatile good or service in excess of actual capacity. Sometimes sometimes its called overbooking or oversubscribing. Its actually a business strategy where sellers expect that some buyers will not consume all of the resources they are entitled to. The practice of overselling ensures that 100% of available supply will be used resulting in the maximum return on investment.

This is why HostB in my example above is an overseller even though his server has the same number of sites on it that non-overseller HostA has. HostB is selling 250 5GB hosting plans on a 500 GB drive knowing that the average site is less than 2GB. HostA has to limit his plans to 2GB or less to keep from overselling. In the end both hosts have 250 sites on their servers and thus both perfrom the same.

But now let us suppose they are both selling 5GB plans on the same servers (remember in original example server has enough ram and cpu for 300 sites). HostA who does not oversell can sell only 100 hosting plans. But host B says: AHA! Each site will use less than 2GB (on average) so I can sell 250 sites on my server.

The result? On a server that has a capacity of 300 sites, HostA can only host 100 sites while HostB is hosting 250 sites. I would prefer to be HostB

Last edited by Collabora : 10-16-2012 at 08:15 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #56 (permalink)   10-16-2012, 07:58 AM
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You really haven't stated much except "overselling is bad." What does the UK trading standards say? ....In their words....
i cannot speak directly from then only relay what they tell me and that overselling can only apply once you start selling any goods/services

as in hosting you cannot oversell let say a 100GB until you have sold the 100GB and then sell over the 100GB
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  Post #57 (permalink)   10-16-2012, 08:48 AM
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i cannot speak directly from then only relay what they tell me and that overselling can only apply once you start selling any goods/services

as in hosting you cannot oversell let say a 100GB until you have sold the 100GB and then sell over the 100GB
This is just so much irrelevant static that I am going to concede the point since it has no affect on my conclusions and examples. Now you no longer have an excuse to avoid the meat and potatoes of the argument.

Let us now revise my description of HostB. Remember HostB?:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Collabora View Post
HostB - He tells himself "I am going to oversell" and so offers a 5GB plan with those same 250 sites. We say he oversells because 5gb/plan x 250 plans = 1,250gb space with only 500GB available (remember, each site is still about 2GB). And we can say this before he sells his first hosting plan!
I now revise that to say: He is an overseller starting with his 101st sold hosting plan.

(The astute observer, who is not limited to thinking in terms of a single server, will note that when HostB sets up his second server, although that server is empty the host is still considered an overselling host by virtue of the existence of the first server)

Now can we move on and talk about real numbers and server performance without muddying the waters with vagaries?

Last edited by Collabora : 10-16-2012 at 08:52 AM.
 
 
 


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  Post #58 (permalink)   10-16-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by traxport121 View Post
Overselling can be dangerous in one way specially when you're about to run out of disk space on your main server due to it
Just add more storage or start up a new server. There is no such thing as a "main server" unless you are a one-webserver company. If you have 5 web servers, what makes one of them the "main" one -- nothing.
 
 
 


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  Post #59 (permalink)   10-16-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by b2netsolutions View Post
Is it good when a reseller host allows overselling on their service?
There are good and bad points for overselling.
PRO: You can earn more money--for both host and client side (oversold hostings are also usually cheaper)
CON: When most of them suddenly have a surge in usage
When you meet clients who optimize the resources given to them
Resellers cannot upgrade servers to prevent it from crashing.

Conclusion: There are more risks in overselling (and even more if they oversell too much).
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  Post #60 (permalink)   10-17-2012, 10:08 AM
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There are good and bad points for overselling.
CON: When most of them suddenly have a surge in usage
When you meet clients who optimize the resources given to them
Resellers cannot upgrade servers to prevent it from crashing.

Conclusion: There are more risks in overselling (and even more if they oversell too much).
Absolutely false. Its very easy to control the number of sites that are provisioned. It is no more difficult than if you are not overselling. If one cannot understand this than one should not be handling servers at all.
 
 
 
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