WHOIS and ownership

[timden]

Hey.

I have a question regarding the WHOIS fields.

I signed up for a US mail forwarding service, which collects my mail and forwards it to me. It comes in handy, because you don't have to give out your personal home address, but I also need it because I travel a lot, and stay abroad for sometimes months in a row, and need my mail forwarded quickly. The address is like this:

My Real First and Last Name
123 Street of Mail Forwarding Company #MyMailBoxID
City of Mail Forwarding Company, State of Mail Forwarding Company ZIP
United States

My question is this: if I use this address as the address of the registrant, admin, and technical contact in the WHOIS fields, will I still own the domain? Or does the mail forwarding company own the domain then, because I'm using their address? Note that my real name is still used and that I'll get my own unique mail box ID.

Any qualified answer is appreciated

 

[colounlimited]

Sounds like it is the same situation with any of the anonymous domain services available with registrars.

As long as you can receive mail from there, I don't think you'll run into any type of ownership issues/disputes.

 

[Vinsar]

Though it's not a good idea to use a fake or forwarding address (dispute may arise anytime), but as long as you are not using the company name in the company field you own the domain technically, practically whatever name/address you are using as long as you have full control over your domain you own your domain. I have seen many people using fake name and address in WHOIS.

Better use WHOIS privacy.

 

[timden]

Sounds like it is the same situation with any of the anonymous domain services available with registrars.

No, it is not. My real name, a unique mailbox identifier, my real phone number, and my real email address is still visible. Such services are also often used by one-man businesses--what if they wanted to own a domain? It'd be the same issue.

Though it's not a good idea to use a fake or forwarding address (dispute may arise anytime), but as long as you are not using the company name in the company field you own the domain technically, practically whatever name/address you are using as long as you have full control over your domain you own your domain. I have seen many people using fake name and address in WHOIS.

Better use WHOIS privacy.

It's not a fake address. It is real. And I don't want to use WHOIS privacy, because then your real name, real phone number, and real email address won't be in there, and you'll most definitely not own the domain anymore and be subject to the WHOIS privacy's terms of use, which include often times frightening paragraphs:

You understand and agree that Backend Service Provider has the absolute right and power, in its sole discretion and without any liability to You whatsoever, to suspend the IDP Services, close Your Account, terminate provisionment of the IDP Services, list the information You provided in section 2 in the Whois output or provide the information You provided in section 2 to a claimant, resolve any and all third party claims, whether threatened or made, arising out of Your use of IDP Domain, or take any other action which Backend Service Provider deems necessary

That was an excerpt from enom's ID Protect Terms of Service.

 

[HostColor]

The registrations address with your hosting provider (or domain registrar) should be your billing address, a real one. Once you sign up and pay for the service, you can request a change of your address in WhoIs database.

 

[timden]

The registrations address with your hosting provider (or domain registrar) should be your billing address, a real one. Once you sign up and pay for the service, you can request a change of your address in WhoIs database.

How is the mail address I gave above *not real*? It belongs to me, mail reaches me, and it's certainly not fake.

 

[Blue]

I don't think you understand how WHOIS privacy works.
You own the domain regardless of whether or not you choose to use WHOIS privacy.

Why not just use your permanent home address if you are worried about this issue.
People are not going to be trying to contact you via your registration details.

 

[SenseiSteve]

My question is this: if I use this address as the address of the registrant, admin, and technical contact in the WHOIS fields, will I still own the domain? Or does the mail forwarding company own the domain then, because I'm using their address? Note that my real name is still used and that I'll get my own unique mail box ID.

Will you still own the domain? YES

 

[timden]

I don't think you understand how WHOIS privacy works.
You own the domain regardless of whether or not you choose to use WHOIS privacy.

First off, your perception of my understanding of WHOIS privacy is not the discussion point of this thread. I honestly don't want to have this discussion because I have already decided not to use WHOIS privacy services. My original question has nothing to do with registrar's privacy services. Secondly, that's a bold thing to say if you haven't bothered to read all the Terms of Service Agreements of the more popular privacy services. Obviously, you haven't even read the excerpt I quoted above from Enom's Privacy Service Agreement. Sorry to break it to you, but unless your name is in the WHOIS database, you don't own the domain in the eyes of ICANN.

People are not going to be trying to contact you via your registration details.

And you know that, how?

 

[timden]

Will you still own the domain? YES

Alright, thanks.

 

[Vinsar]

Well, just to give a pointer. In cases of dispute, registrar may ask for identity/address proof, so as long as you can furbish them, you can use any address.

Like for instance, here in my country I have a permanent address, a current address where I reside and I also have two office addresses, I have documentary proof of them so I can use any of them because in case of dispute I can provide documents for any of those address.

I am not sure about the legalities there in USA, so as long as a postal mail forwarding address has legal status there, I think you can use it.

 

[subcozer]

Better to use privacy

 

[Blue]

First off, your perception of my understanding of WHOIS privacy is not the discussion point of this thread. I honestly don't want to have this discussion because I have already decided not to use WHOIS privacy services. My original question has nothing to do with registrar's privacy services. Secondly, that's a bold thing to say if you haven't bothered to read all the Terms of Service Agreements of the more popular privacy services. Obviously, you haven't even read the excerpt I quoted above from Enom's Privacy Service Agreement. Sorry to break it to you, but unless your name is in the WHOIS database, you don't own the domain in the eyes of ICANN.



And you know that, how?

10 years experience in the industry and owning over 500 registered domains.

I care not if you choose to get whois protection.
Your reasons for not getting it are far off base though.

 

[timden]

Well, just to give a pointer. In cases of dispute, registrar may ask for identity/address proof, so as long as you can furbish them, you can use any address.

Like for instance, here in my country I have a permanent address, a current address where I reside and I also have two office addresses, I have documentary proof of them so I can use any of them because in case of dispute I can provide documents for any of those address.

I am not sure about the legalities there in USA, so as long as a postal mail forwarding address has legal status there, I think you can use it.

Thanks for your helpful post.

 

[timden]

Better to use privacy

Better to read the original post more carefully.

 

[timden]

10 years experience in the industry and owning over 500 registered domains.

I care not if you choose to get whois protection.
Your reasons for not getting it are far off base though.

Anyone can claim experience without actually having it, and even if you have it, you still don't know, if *I* am not going to be contacted in the future. You're not Nostradamus, are you?

People are not going to be trying to contact you via your registration details.

Court papers *are* sent to the postal address; not that I expect them--I don't do anything illegal, but you're wrong on that one.

Why not just use your permanent home address if you are worried about this issue.

I already mentioned that using a mail forwarding company is also necessary, because I'm often abroad for several months (which I am actually right now). Just using my personal home address is unwise, because I'd open up my mail up to several months too late.

So, the mail forwarding company is already necessary for purposes besides privacy, as I already explained in my original post. And as a convenient side effect, it gives an additional layer of privacy, which is only legally penetrable by law enforcement. So, why use WHOIS privacy, if all it does is cost more and make you subject to their Terms of Service (ToS) agreements? It makes no sense.

The problem is that when an dispute comes in the registrar is in control and can decide to turn off privacy, charge fees, or whatever else they want to do. Just read the ToS excerpt I posted above or read it on their homepage.

All you hear people saying is that it only costs $x.xx per year. Here is an example of what you get for a few bucks a year:

http://news.cnet.com/Private-domains-not-so-private/2100-1038_3-5833663.html

http://forums.nodaddy.com/index.php?topic=6.0

http://www.neilturner.me.uk/2005/08/12/fauxdaddy.html

The mere fact that you haven't had these problems in 10 years doesn't mean they cannot happen. The above links are proof of that. But I wish you luck, you'll need it.

Nevertheless, I find it amusing and telling that you continue to refuse to comment on the ToS agreements and that they explicitly give you a lot of reasons not to use those privacy services.

I have tried to stay objective and provide proof of my claims, but if you continue to post unfounded and/or unhelpful comments, like arguing that your alleged experience predicts what is going to happen in my case, or simply ignoring what the ToS actually says (which contradicts what you seem to imply), I might choose to just ignore them and leave them unanswered.

I think everyone with eyes to read and a brain to process information can make up their own mind.

I got the information I needed. For me, this topic is closed.

Have a nice day.