In response to Blue and Unlimited Hosts.

J

JerryM

New member
I tried to post a reply within that thread but it was already closed.

First, please note, I am not starting this thread for a heated discussion. I'm simply looking for answers.

I have saw Blue go off about unlimited hosts before but nothing like this time. Blue said that guy was unprofessional and lying. What about blue being unprofessional here as a Mod? AND why wouldn't Blue answer the questions asked? Afraid the other person was right in saying you also lie on your site? What gives Blue the right to attack a person but not vise versa?

Steve made a very good point also, that this forum has taken on a new tone. AND then he to had gotten jumped for saying that.

This is not the way to keep an active user base. I'm wondering what you Mods plan to do to straighten this out?
 
Hi Jerry,

Thank you for voicing your opinion, it matters and it is always valuable. But please keep in mind:

1. Blue is not a moderator, he is an advisor. He has no moderating responsibilities nor is he restricted in voicing his opinions.

2. Blue has left on vacation I believe, but what question(s) has he not addresses?

3. Everyone has their own opinions and principles. While he has gone all out against the unlimited resources (which I have to say I side with him on), he has agreed and was supportive of the same member's stand on other issues. Its a matter of principle on subjects. The problem is not in particular members, the problem is with terminology. Blue mentioned even if the word unmetered was used, it would have been correct. But offering "unlimited" is a lie, which it is. Blue's stand on "unlimited" has been well known for many years.


I do not agree that this forum has taken a new tone. Why? Just because of one or two heated debates over certain policies? I'd rather have open healthy dialogues than censor opinions, which I, or few other people, do not agree with. The ability to speak up and explain your view is an excellent opportunity and everyone's right, unless the ideas proposed are illegal in nature.
 
Hello Art,

Thanks for your reply. I do fully believe in freedom of speech and also fully agree that unlimited diskspace and bandwidth is a lie, that's why you don't see such plans on my site.

This person simply asked "Is it possible? What has been the most effective form of advertising for your business?" regarding "Marketing You Web Hosting Business On A Shoe String Budget". AND he was jumped by Blue for his Unlimited plans.

This guy then asked blue about stuff on his site being a lie. "you offer a FREE SITE BUILDER. I would like to know is that free after you purchase hosting or can anyone use the program?????? If it is FREE after the purchase of one of your hosting plans, then can you tell us how you can say it is FREE?", Blue completely blew this off and went on with this other guy lying about "unlimited"

There were others within the thread as well, but I think this post is long enough now. You may view the other stuff within the thread at http://www.hostingdiscussion.com/pr...-web-hosting-business-shoe-string-budget.html
 
Hey Jerry,

I looked over the thread and in reference to Blue's comment regarding the budget, a fair enough note was made regarding member's client list of over 20,000 people, to which this response was made:

"I have to admit the 20,000 + customers was added by web designer. That was a template he designed and put there. I removed it. It does sound good though. But we arent that good. YET I should add. LOL"

Do you allow your web designer to add whatever they feel like to your site without checking?
As business owner, Jerry, wouldn't you be aware of what is said on The Premier Host's website?

It was actually me, not Blue, who brought up unlimited bandwidth question, and it was only in response to user statement that said:

"I definately do not want to advertise something that is not true."

I was very surprised of the statement when member's website offered false information that was acknowledged by that member thereafter.

If you think any of the questions were faulty in any way, or if you took offense, I do apologize. But when I see something that doesn't match up, I usually ask about it for the overall benefit of the community.

Regarding what is said on Blue's website, I'll leave it for him to answer, but any reasonable individual in the hosting business would know what a free site builder offer is about or how it is used. Evidently you can't use it without at least a basic hosting account, nor do all hosting companies offer it, so it makes it a free add-on. Just like I understand that your company's "free daily backups" cannot be used without an account, while not all companies offer daily backups...
 
I really took no offense or any such thing from it. I still like it here and will continue to visit and post.

My hopes for this thread was really to point out how this member, who started a thread that could have been very good and had alot of valuable information in it, was turned into crap just because of something on his website.

Really, we all know what a "free site builder" or " free daily backups" means but in his question to Blue, it was really the same as Blue was asking him and Blue blew him off.

I'm really hoping for a response to Blue on this.
 
I hope we get one as well, but I am pretty sure he is already somewhere where its hot and sunny.

Feel free to start another discussion on the subject, I am sure we can pull some more knowledge together. That thread had some points, but obviously they were overlooked by the drama - it happens! :)

Appreciate your feedback, Jerry. We are always listening.
 
I think the issue or the cause of the issue based on the threads and views in questions relate to that of image, as representatives of companies in a faceless industry our websites and communication dictate how we are perceived, both in the industry and to clients as well as play a part in our perceived status.

Some more than others voice this perception in a somewhat more direct and public fashion however the results are similar in that to choice to abstain from discussion, provide closed responses or provoke response.

The goal however ultimately is to find the value of information using the above techniques, the value being evaluated in a traditional sense such that if information is being requested from a representative of a company already providing false information, why would you be inclined to provide assistance? how accurate is any further information such a representative provides? and would you follow that advice at the expense of your company?

Call me old fashioned but nobody likes being lied to and in roles I participate in voluntarily it is an almost hourly occurrence and you subsequently take the stance as above as to discount any further provided information.

Prehaps just another view point here. :)


As to unlimited and the use of it in advertising and websites, I expect it may soon come under heavy and enforceable action for any UK registered company or hosted websites as the ASA (advertising Standards Authority) have recently gained powers for the control of advertising on websites.

They make their stance very clear as to advertising as follows: The ASA is the UK's independent regulator of advertising across all media, including marketing on websites. We work to ensure ads are legal, decent, honest and truthful by applying the Advertising Codes.
 
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JerryM said:
I really took no offense or any such thing from it. I still like it here and will continue to visit and post.

My hopes for this thread was really to point out how this member, who started a thread that could have been very good and had alot of valuable information in it, was turned into crap just because of something on his website.

Really, we all know what a "free site builder" or " free daily backups" means but in his question to Blue, it was really the same as Blue was asking him and Blue blew him off.
I'm really hoping for a response to Blue on this.
Click to expand...

I think Blue didn't bother answering because the answer is obvious and "Free" really can't be compared to "Unlimited Space" or "Unlimited Bandwidth".

Free = no cost

Unlimited = :confused:

One is easy and obvious to answer, while the other has a "grey area".
 
Personally, I think that Unlimited/Unmetered web hosting, is not a lie. Due to the fact of the space you offer, is private, and even though it is not specifically unlimited. You could offer enough servers, and keep expanding, as then it would be unlimited. Due to that fact that a well known host "HostGator" offers unlimited as well. I cannot do anything but to express my opinion that a unlimited host can be possible. Even though it may be a direct lie. But, within lies the server it is true. Its the side of thinking you get. :). If you need me to do the math, I can prove to you the unlimited/Unmetered is a lie, but is not a lie at the same time. :p
 
TheLastDream said:
Personally, I think that Unlimited/Unmetered web hosting, is not a lie. Due to the fact of the space you offer, is private, and even though it is not specifically unlimited. You could offer enough servers, and keep expanding, as then it would be unlimited. Due to that fact that a well known host "HostGator" offers unlimited as well. I cannot do anything but to express my opinion that a unlimited host can be possible. Even though it may be a direct lie. But, within lies the server it is true. Its the side of thinking you get. :). If you need me to do the math, I can prove to you the unlimited/Unmetered is a lie, but is not a lie at the same time. :p
Click to expand...

So it's a lie, but not a lie? :uhh:
 
You could offer enough servers, and keep expanding, as then it would be unlimited.
Click to expand...
What if your need for resources grows faster than a host's ability to expand? Isn't that a, uh, what's the word...
 
I love that Sprint has now started a commercial campaign about UNLIMITED and how after reading up on the term UNLIMITED it does not caveat to terms such as throttling, monitor etc etc. I just saw the commercial last night on TV but I haven't been able to find it on youtube yet.

The commercial was actually an advertisement that UNLIMITED WEB/CALLING/TEXT was something that they DID provide and that other places, while calling it unlimited, actually have limitations.

This is true of the web. There is no such thing as UNLIMITED bandwidth. Take a 100MB port connection for example. At it's maximum capability with no real-world factors, in theory you could transfer 262 terrabits of information. It's impossible to transfer that in 1 month time :) Even if you could, 262 terrabits is the limit, thus, "unlimited" is proved as untrue.

UNMETERED means that you can upload and download as much as you want, and nobody is going to monitor or meter it for you. This is a REAL solution.

Unlimited is a marketing term, unmetered is a realistic term.

Much like you can't go to Fridays and really have an Unlimited Margarita - they will eventually run out, or they'll close at 1am. So Unlimited Margaritas between 9pm and 1am is accepted. There is always a limit to everything someone does.

As for unlimited disk space, check the TOS of the hosting company, they DO limit it :) They actually limit it by limiting the number of INODES on an account. Hostgator limits at 250,000. So in essence, their maximum of 250,000 data files (file, image, mail message, session, temp file etc). Any account with 250,000 is subject to suspension and termination according to section 7b of their TOS - http://www.hostgator.com/tos/tos.php

So is it unlimited? Not if they put the limit on it like they did :) There's also hosting companies that state the site can not be a storage site or that files in excess of 50GB are prohibited, or terms that if a file has not been accessed within the past 30 days, they reserve the right to remove the file. Each of these are limitations to the "unlimited" claim.
 
TheLastDream said:
Personally, I think that Unlimited/Unmetered web hosting, is not a lie. Due to the fact of the space you offer, is private, and even though it is not specifically unlimited. You could offer enough servers, and keep expanding, as then it would be unlimited. Due to that fact that a well known host "HostGator" offers unlimited as well. I cannot do anything but to express my opinion that a unlimited host can be possible. Even though it may be a direct lie. But, within lies the server it is true. Its the side of thinking you get. :). If you need me to do the math, I can prove to you the unlimited/Unmetered is a lie, but is not a lie at the same time. :p
Click to expand...

Its one thing to promise something (and run after the promise by continuously expanding), its another to actually keep delivering the solution reliably at same cost to customer.

That is why I do not like unlimited space/bandwidth offers. If anything, it LIMITS the customer in growing their sites. If I create a really large database-driven site, it would limit me in the amount of files I can host and/or certain types of files. As customer, even if I do not consume a lot of space/bandwidth, I do not like this kind of headache of thinking when my accounts will be irresponsibly terminated for those other reasons mentioned.
 
Artashes said:
Its one thing to promise something (and run after the promise by continuously expanding), its another to actually keep delivering the solution reliably at same cost to customer.

That is why I do not like unlimited space/bandwidth offers. If anything, it LIMITS the customer in growing their sites. If I create a really large database-driven site, it would limit me in the amount of files I can host and/or certain types of files. As customer, even if I do not consume a lot of space/bandwidth, I do not like this kind of headache of thinking when my accounts will be irresponsibly terminated for those other reasons mentioned.
Click to expand...

Well, you've been lucky enough to have sites with quite a bit of traffic, so your worry is understandable. I wasn't as lucky, so I never had problems with unlimited accounts. The vast majority of sites have little or even negligible traffic levels. They will do fine with unlimited hosting (assuming the host keeps the servers running fast).

If the ad says "unlimited margaritas" and you have one or two, you're not going to have problems, and you'll be a happy customer. :) I had a great time at an all you can eat restaurant when I visited my brother in the US, though I'm sure that if everybody went for the same dish all the time, trouble would have been almost guaranteed.
 
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Dan, you hit the nail on the head. MOST people will not have issues if they're using minimal traffic. And if all people on the server use minimal resources then the hosting company can make a profit by cramming hundreds (or thousands) of users on a single machine. But when you actually go to use that UNLIMITED resource, that's when problems start.

As for the food buffets, they're great. I've been to a number of them and usually after my 2nd or 3rd trip I'm ready to leave and everyone is happy. However I did have an 11 hour stay at an all you can eat sushi bar with my old roommate. We had nothing planned for the day so we went down to the sushi bar, they had sports on TV and all you can eat and drink. After 4 hours, we got dirty looks. After 8 hours we were visted frequently by managers and the owner :) They did hold up to their end of the deal however and continued to bring out food of different types. We did clean them out of some stuff, but they continued to bring out food. The following weekend there was a note posted on their buffet that the time was limited to 2 hours. :)
 
I think the REAL problem here is that the whole UNLIMITED thing tends to attract more of the type of customers that think they can host YouTube or Google on their unlimited account. :rolleyes2

Fortunately, most clients will never reach such limits, but that doesn't mean they don't think their unlimited account can handle it if it ever did.. When you offer limits, you attract more reasonable customers that understand the limits of their accounts, and don't expect to host a 100,000 member forum on their shared hosting account. ;)

Conor, your story made me LOL! Gotta hand it to them, though.. for not kicking you guys out. :p
 
Artashes said:
Its one thing to promise something (and run after the promise by continuously expanding), its another to actually keep delivering the solution reliably at same cost to customer.

That is why I do not like unlimited space/bandwidth offers. If anything, it LIMITS the customer in growing their sites. If I create a really large database-driven site, it would limit me in the amount of files I can host and/or certain types of files. As customer, even if I do not consume a lot of space/bandwidth, I do not like this kind of headache of thinking when my accounts will be irresponsibly terminated for those other reasons mentioned.
Click to expand...

I understand, but unlimited is also an offer that can be avoided by big company's. What my hosting company does, which i do not state in terms of service, or show on my website, due to the fact i would be loosing alot of proceeds. What we do is, We offer unlimited hosting, and if we feel your site expands our web hosting, or bogs down (Slows down) our loading speed, our diskspace etc. We will migrate you to a Dedicated Server. This is how we keep our servers 100% lag free, and 100% reliable. This is why if you go to my website we have over 500+ facebook likes. :)

You can offer unlimited plans, you just have to have a plan B. If your servers decide to slow down, or crash. Which is what Hosting42 Offers :)
 
Did I read this right? Did you just say that if a user slows down the server that they're on with a standard shared hosting package, then you will move them to a dedicated server? Was this a FREE MOVE to a FREE DEDICATED server? If so, I'll sign up for your FREE account, overload the machine and you'll move me to my very own dedicated server without any restrictions?
 
TheLastDream said:
I understand, but unlimited is also an offer that can be avoided by big company's. What my hosting company does, which i do not state in terms of service, or show on my website, due to the fact i would be loosing alot of proceeds. What we do is, We offer unlimited hosting, and if we feel your site expands our web hosting, or bogs down (Slows down) our loading speed, our diskspace etc. We will migrate you to a Dedicated Server. This is how we keep our servers 100% lag free, and 100% reliable. This is why if you go to my website we have over 500+ facebook likes. :)

You can offer unlimited plans, you just have to have a plan B. If your servers decide to slow down, or crash. Which is what Hosting42 Offers :)
Click to expand...

That's like selling a Porsche, but not telling the customer it has a VW engine and when the customer realizes the lack of speed you offer them an upgrade to an actual Porsche engine... :uhh:
 
handsonhosting said:
Did I read this right? Did you just say that if a user slows down the server that they're on with a standard shared hosting package, then you will move them to a dedicated server? Was this a FREE MOVE to a FREE DEDICATED server? If so, I'll sign up for your FREE account, overload the machine and you'll move me to my very own dedicated server without any restrictions?
Click to expand...

Wow, I second that!! :D
 
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