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  Post #46 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 11:38 AM
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Yes - the reviewers might need to ask friends or relatives about using their credit cards - or use Paypal accounts. (Though a few would probably want to send in payments via snailmail [money orders], if a host accepts this as a form of payment. That can get around the identification-question.)

The reviewers could try falsifying information, and see if hosts catch that - and if they don't, let the hosts know *afterwards* so that they could fix their due-diligence process if they chose.
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  Post #47 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesli
That last part is going to be suspected no matter who started the organization.
Hmmmm ... do you honestly believe a board of web host peers who are trying to "clean up" the business could be bought to certify someone they feel is going to undermine what they are attempting to do?

Thats why I personally would trust a board of industry peers ... rather than a bunch of relatively unknowns who have absolutely no vested interest in achieving that goal.

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  Post #48 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 11:44 AM
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But who would you suggest Peter? Who would you trust to be on the board for such an organization? I don't know anyone who I could trust anymore than my own service provider.

Edit: I just noticed I'm over the 100 post count mark, I'd like to thank Artashes for the forum community, and ldcdc for having a link to this forum in his WHT signature. Amen...err, thanks!
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  Post #49 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmhoran
Hmmmm ... do you honestly believe a board of web host peers who are trying to "clean up" the business could be bought to certify someone they feel is going to undermine what they are attempting to do?

Thats why I personally would trust a board of industry peers ... rather than a bunch of relatively unknowns who have absolutely no vested interest in achieving that goal.

Peter
There are some people in every group who can and will be bought, especially if they think that the situation can be steered to benefit them exclusively. It's sad, but it's human nature.

Think of how it would appear to consumers - they're the ones we'd be trying to convince, not just other web hosts. Consumers already are a bit leery of the web hosting industry. How would you honestly feel about hearing of a group of used car dealers (just to use a group / business that's stereotypically untrusted) who started something to try and reform the industry? You'd be a little bit suspicious, maybe willing to give them the benefit of the doubt - but you'd be careful of taking what they said at face value, because you'd wonder how they were directly benefitting. We've seen companies trying all sorts of dodgy things to get positive spin. If there is a mix of hosting-affiliated people for the industry-specific knowledge; and non-hosting-affiliated people to keep them in check; the board and the reviews have a better chance of being impartial.
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  Post #50 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exon
But who would you suggest Peter? Who would you trust to be on the board for such an organization? I don't know anyone who I could trust anymore than my own service provider.
Well ... that is where I bow out I am not knowledgeable enough about the industry to be able to suggest anyone really.

But if I was put on the spot ... there are a few on this forum that I would not hestitate to suggest. I haven't been here long ... but the people I am thinking of have all impressed me as people wishing to improve the profile of the web hosting industry. They have struck me as people of honesty, integrity and in possession of a generous spirit. But these are my impressions from only having know them (or of them) for a few weeks. So I am not about to say my impressions of these people are totally and inarguably accurate

There are those among you who have been involved in the industry for years ... and I am sure you know the ones who you KNOW will uphold the ideals of an association like we have been discussing. People whose opinions you value & trust ... peers in the industry you respect and/or admire. Those are the people who should be considered to be involved in the developement of this association.

Again ... JMHO
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  Post #51 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:03 PM
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You don't know of anyone (not necessariliy a person, but even an existing organization) who if they put a "seal" on it you would give it more thought/value than that of someone else. There has to be ONE that you can at least brainstorm/name out.
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  Post #52 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:14 PM
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Lesli ... I can see your point. Maybe I am just suffering from a naive tunnel vision I still can't get it out of my mind that a peer to peer association would be the best way to go.

As the association became more well known and certification of a web host became more sought after ... then no doubt articles would be written up about it in e-zines and print magazines dealing with the industry. As long as the objectives of the association and its integrity remains untarnished. And I feel those articles would be written quicker if it was an association of peers.

Then again ... I don't actually trust what I read in the e-zines any more. My first and second "paid for" web hosts I chose because of articles I had read ... and both hosts screwed me. Without vaseline

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  Post #53 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmhoran
Then again ... I don't actually trust what I read in the e-zines any more. My first and second "paid for" web hosts I chose because of articles I had read ... and both hosts screwed me. Without vaseline
Nicely put!


I think a diverse peer-to-peer network of hosts wouldn't be a BAAAD thing - one would just need to make sure that said hosts would be reliable, and as stated, driven towards the betterment of the hosting community and not self preservation.
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  Post #54 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exon
You don't know of anyone (not necessariliy a person, but even an existing organization) who if they put a "seal" on it you would give it more thought/value than that of someone else. There has to be ONE that you can at least brainstorm/name out.
Well ... it has absolutely nothing to do with web hosting. But since you are putting me on the spot .... when I choose a mechanic or need an autobody shop ... I only choose ones that are certified by the CAA (which is similar to the USA's AAA)

As a consumer ... and never having been a web host or anything ... I would be more likely to trust a "seal" issued to a web host by an association of peers ... before I would trust a "seal" issued by an association of consumers.

JMHO ... but I am sticking to it hahaha
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  Post #55 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exon
I think a diverse peer-to-peer network of hosts wouldn't be a BAAAD thing - one would just need to make sure that said hosts would be reliable, and as stated, driven towards the betterment of the hosting community and not self preservation.
Exactamundo !!! And I honestly feel those unique individuals are out there ... maybe even here in this forum.

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  Post #56 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exon
Nicely put!

I think a diverse peer-to-peer network of hosts wouldn't be a BAAAD thing - one would just need to make sure that said hosts would be reliable, and as stated, driven towards the betterment of the hosting community and not self preservation.
This is why I suggest a mix. People will always *want* to better their own business - that's natural. It's also entirely possible for a web host to be a part of this panel / association, remain impartial, and still better their own business. It just takes more work to keep conflicts of interest from taking over.

If a peer-to-peer network is started up, what assurances would there be that this group would be able to stay true to its vision? In essense, who watches the watchers? If the group's goals are clearly communicated and publicly stated, that's a start. If the membership of the board rotates regularly, that's another way to ensure that no company can simply overrun the group. Even if person A left the group and then returned two years hence, that's a two-year time period where they aren't able to actively be a part of the steering committee of this organization, and would have a much harder time pushing any agendas to give one company preference over another.
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  Post #57 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesli
This is why I suggest a mix. People will always *want* to better their own business - that's natural. It's also entirely possible for a web host to be a part of this panel / association, remain impartial, and still better their own business. It just takes more work to keep conflicts of interest from taking over.

If a peer-to-peer network is started up, what assurances would there be that this group would be able to stay true to its vision? In essense, who watches the watchers? If the group's goals are clearly communicated and publicly stated, that's a start. If the membership of the board rotates regularly, that's another way to ensure that no company can simply overrun the group. Even if person A left the group and then returned two years hence, that's a two-year time period where they aren't able to actively be a part of the steering committee of this organization, and would have a much harder time pushing any agendas to give one company preference over another.
If the association wanted their "seal" to mean anything at all ... they would have to remain "true to its vision".

Maybe I put too much trust in human nature ... but if the right board members are sought initially (an odd number of board members so no tie votes ) then they could "self police". I doubt if one member was seen to lose their integrity or ability to be unbiased ... it would not afflict all the members at the same time So that board member could be voted off and a new board member sought.

My brain is about to go on TILT mode. I am not used to thinking this hard about anything

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  Post #58 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:48 PM
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I am actually surprised some of the moderators of the forum haven't jumped in and offered their opinions.

Hmmmm ... strangely silent
 
 
 


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  Post #59 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 12:51 PM
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I must take a lunch as well - so a nice break for all of us from this thinking and pondering.

I concur with Peter, as long as the right members were used from the start there shouldn't be problems, and, as he stated, an odd number to prevent ties, 11, 13, what-have-you, and no more than one rep per company to ensure that they couldn't "gang up" so to speak.

If one decided to step down, or was putting the organization's integrity on the line, said member could be voted out and a new member brought in.

Edit: off to lunch I go, and Peter, they've seen the thread...cause I've been checkin' the "who's online" deal

But I would love to hear some more comments/points brought up. I'm enjoying this discussion.
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  Post #60 (permalink)   01-12-2005, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Edit: I just noticed I'm over the 100 post count mark, I'd like to thank Artashes for the forum community, and ldcdc for having a link to this forum in his WHT signature. Amen...err, thanks!
All thanks should go to Artashes. I don't have HD in my signature at WHT or anywhere else for that matter.

Quote:
I am actually surprised some of the moderators of the forum haven't jumped in and offered their opinions.

Hmmmm ... strangely silent
It's a long thread, I had to catch up.

IMO (and believe me, I gave it a lot of thought in the last 18 months or so), a very close to perfect association has little chances of existing. That's why it did not sprung up and thrived.

Two of my reasons:

1. Not feasible. Why? Because you'd have to have more people review the host at the same time. It's always possible for a host (or host employee) to mistreat one customer, but that doesn't make the company bad. Time costs money, and definitely those $200 won't be able to cover the costs for getting hosting plans (for say 6 reviewers). Reevaluation would have to occur at least every months (IMO).

What if you're evaluating a managed hosting provider with costs of $1000/month/server?

What if you're evaluating a company like Akamai? Can one actualy compare Akamai to the average hosting company out there?

2. A system based on benevolent volunteers has high chances of not working properly. Think of DMOZ and all the problems it faces.

Last edited by ldcdc : 01-12-2005 at 01:14 PM.
 
 
 
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